09 June 2017

SPIEGEL: Europeans 'must learn world affairs'

In an interview with DER SPIEGEL, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, 62, discusses the EU's growing self-confidence, its differences with President Trump and Brexit negotiations in the wake of an unclear election outcome in Britain.

[...]SPIEGEL: Your new paper on defense policy seems strikingly ambitious. It speaks of the expansion of EU military operations, of operations against terrorist groups and of naval deployments in hostile environments. Are you not raising false expectations in suggesting that the EU will be capable of defending itself in the future?

Juncker: I am not pursuing a militarization of the EU, but we can no longer afford our small-state mentality when it comes to defense policy. Let me give you a simple example: In Europe we spend almost half of the military budget of the U.S. on defense, but we achieve only 15 percent of the Americans' efficiency. There are 178 weapons systems in Europe, and 30 in the U.S. We have 17 types of combat tanks; the Americans have one. If we more strongly consolidated procurement, we could save 25 to 100 billion euros. We will not be conducting global affairs with brute force -- the EU wasn't conceived for that. But because the world has become what it is, global affairs is something that we Europeans are going to have to learn.

SPIEGEL: Do the Europeans have an alternative to the Americans?

Juncker: I am a champion of trans-Atlantic relations and I do not believe there is any other option available to us than working closely together with America -- including Canada. There is no other alliance option, but the same is true for the U.S. [...]

SPIEGEL: Following the elections in Austria, the Netherlands and France, do you think the danger of the right-wing populists has been averted?

Juncker: No. With their enthusiasm over the recent election results, people are overlooking the fact that the threat of the far-right is still there. The monster is still going strong. The right-wing populists gathered millions of votes in all three countries. The problem is that many in the traditional parties parrot everything the populists do. In doing so, they become populists themselves rather than standing in their way. [...]

SPIEGEL: We had that impression. You recently mentioned that you were already winning elections with pro-European policies 30 years ago.

Juncker: It's true. But that's also easier in Luxembourg than in France. I like Macron a lot and I very much welcome him -- particularly the fact that he made Europe one of the main topics of the election debate.

SPIEGEL: Should the German government make overtures to him?

Juncker: Now we're sliding into the romantic depths of the German-French relationship. Many in Germany are saying that Macron should be helped. That's also how I see it. But Germany cannot solve France's problems. The French president and his government will have to seriously knuckle down in order to pull France out of its slump.

SPIEGEL: Who is better suited to push Europe forward at France's side after Germany's national election this fall? The chancellor or your friend Martin Schulz?

Juncker: I understand the hostile intention of your question and am not amused. So here you go: Both can do it.

SPIEGEL: Elections in Britain on Thursday did not deliver the clarity which had been hoped for. Theresa May's party has lost its absolute majority and has to rely on the support of other parties. What will that mean for Brexit negotiations?

Juncker: The dust still has to settle in Britain. We have been prepared to negotiate for months now. We could start early tomorrow morning. The ball is now in the British court.

SPIEGEL: Many observers are anticipating the talks will collapse early on. Do you have a Plan B?

Juncker: No. I have a plan. It entails leading to a fair deal and relationship with the British. We will be reasonable, but we will also negotiate firmly and without gullibility. I believe we must come to an agreement for the people of Britain and the people on the Continent, but not under exclusively British terms.

SPIEGEL: With all due respect to your optimism ... …

Juncker: … ... I am not optimistic at all …...

SPIEGEL: … ... you can't really deny that a confrontation is approaching. The EU first wants to talk about the rights of its citizens and the money Britain will owe, but the British want to talk about future relations. How can this dilemma be solved?

Juncker: We must discuss the terms of the divorce first before we can enter into a detailed discussion about future relations. [...]

SPIEGEL: You recently said: "I assumed office to bring the EU to a point from which there is no going back. Instead, I am having to unwind the EU to a certain extent." Would you say that Brexit is your greatest political defeat of your career?

Juncker: No. Contrary to the widely held belief, I don't feel responsible for Brexit. We didn't interfere in the referendum campaign. But it is true that negotiating Brexit is not a pleasant future task. It is the unwinding of a grand vision. I continue to see Brexit as a tragedy. I enjoy getting married more than I do getting divorced. And now I am spending most of my workweek on Brexit. [...]

Full interview on SPIEGEL

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